526

(87 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

Zuzurp wrote:

The rules about armour wearing for magic users is not clear.

As far as I'm concerned, everyone can wear whatever armor they want. But the intention is that certain abilities (MU spellcasting, a lot of the Specialist stuff) only work when someone is unencumbered overall.

Zuzurp wrote:

Without any prerequisite, why would anyone prefer a magic user over an elf? Comparing them:
The same type of comparison can be made for fighters and dwarves.

I don't want to use level limits (I've never run a game from Level 1 and had anyone get to level 8, let alone level 12, so what does it matter?), but this problem you describe is present in the source games as well.

I think the problem is more for the dwarf-fighter comparison. Elves need over 50% more XP to gain a level than MUs. 20,000 to Fireball is a hell of a lot shorter time than 32,000, for example, and that extra 1500 needed to gain second level could seem like forever.

So if I drop the hit progression from dwarves, what would they get instead? d10 hit dice to make them (potentially) tougher than all?

And the same question for elves, but with their incredible XP requirements I'm not so eager to take anything away from them.

Zuzurp wrote:

Halflings are indeed ridiculous, totally useless. What's the use of the +2 armor class if you can't hit a thing and even if you do, you inflict nothing more than a scratch?

Again, this is a traditional problem, not one I'm introducing. I don't feel a need to do anything to make the halfling more impressive (balancing a character type that was only ever an afterthought isn't something I care about), but I will take another look at it... but any added benefits will definitely be non-combat. I'm more and more thinking, "You want to be good at fighting? Fighter."

Zuzurp wrote:

I would put the Web spell as having an area effect, not as being a paralyzing effect.

The idea is to read the save tables left to right and pick the first applicable category.

Zuzurp wrote:

The lance seems to be a very very good weapon (same for the polearm). You should include in the description that they need two hands and I would personnaly somehow limit their use if fighting in close combat (from the first rank).

They are impressive in early editions as well. I don't like having an "automatically lose initiative" weapon (although I will revisit it, I'm studying Mentzer as the how-to here), but these weapons would count automatically in encumbrance calculations.

Zuzurp wrote:

If you include the "(not counting DEX modifier)" in the weapon description, you should also later detail what part of the AC is due to high dexterity for monsters.

Monster AC will be as-is, none of it from DEX for these purposes.

Zuzurp wrote:

The rules to get XP from treasure seem unclear and strange. If a big monster swallows a chest full of gold (why not?), why would the PC get XP if they wait for the monster to shit those coins out before killing it and not if they kill it to retrieve the chest? I would also include rewards as giving XP.

I'll need to clarify. Proper hoards will be worth XP and a chest guarded by a monster would indeed be considered a hoard. As for the other example, one thing I want to stress is "money gained in civilization isn't XP, money gained out in the dangerous weird lands is XP."

Zuzurp wrote:

Is it wanted that there is no recovery in case of diseases?  The INT in the example doesn't come back naturally with time?

After the end of the disease, INT will recover at the rate of 1/week (as per the rules given in the healing section), but I will clarify this in the disease example.

Zuzurp wrote:

What's the thought process behind punishing characters with less than half their hit point by preventing natural regeneration?

Hit points aren't just a measure of injury, but of luck and fate and blah blah etc. But if you're down to half your hit points, you're REALLY hurt in some way, and take longer to heal without magical help.

Zuzurp wrote:

A character with two daggers in his hands, ready to throw them, and three more hanging from his belt would be more encumbered than the same character with a backpack full of gold, two medium-size weapons at his belt and a full large sack in one hand?

Yes, perhaps this needs a tweak. But I want a quick "official" eyeball rule for encumbrance that doesn't involve counting coins and torches and oil bottles.

But thanks for commenting, it's this sort of thing that helps me look at the nuts and bolts when writing and organizing before I sit down and see how this will all work in play.

527

(87 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

Oh, and neither Tolkien "quest fantasy" nor "swords and sorcery," as they're normally thought of anyway, will be the exact flavor.

528

(87 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

A response to various comments:

The idea behind the rapier is that most weapons, if not using AC vs Armor charts and not counting encumbrance, basically come down to "How much damage does it do?" So I made generic weapon categories that'll cover most things, and then added weapons that behave differently. If the rapier is not different than a regular sword, there's no point to it. But I thought it might make a good "gentleman's weapon" that would be allowed in town because it's so much more ineffectual against town guard types wearing chainmail.

The Cleric as "holy warrior." Hmm. Originally, my idea was that only the Fighter would advance in fighting ability. He's the Fighter, that's his job! Everyone else has other things they can do. This would also allow the weapon restrictions on other classes to go away, as if their natural attack ability never increases, then they don't challenge the fighter's ability even with magic weapons, so no need for restrictions.

But then I thought, what good is the dwarf if he isn't a squat fighter type? And isn't the whole point of the elf to be a fighter/magic-user combo? Suddenly almost half the classes advance in fighting ability, and the MU, Specialist, Cleric, and Halfling look like the combat also-rans. The MU people don't care about because it's normal for them to be way behind in the combat stakes, and the Halfling *I* don't care about. Frankly, I'd be happy to leave off all the demi-humans but cross-compatibility is a prime goal more than twisting the game beyond all salvaging.

So I'm not sure what to do. All classes have better hit tables than 0 level humans (including all regular soldiers and men-at-arms) so they are combat trained. Clerics can cast spells even when decked out in full armor and can use whatever weapon they'd like. That's a war machine right there as far as I'm concerned.

A vicious circle. So what else to do with the dwarf and elf then?

Specialist Sneak Attack power: In my version, 2x level damage means +20 at 10th level, 21-28 if using a sword. 1e gives quadruple damage at that level, so we're talking 4-32 points. (and by 16th level 1e is giving quintuple damage...). My version doesn't allow the damage potential 1e does, and at least makes sure the sneak attack is worth the attempt - especially since the character has to hit using the same charts as they were at first level in order to inflict that damage.

The pronoun issue. Hmm. Using "they" as a singular pronoun works fine in speech, but whenever I see it written I really, really hate it. "His or her" is much worse as a waste of space. Contorting writing to avoid possessive pronouns together just makes everything awful. Yet even with the way everything will be set up (work is moving forward on the cover, but nothing is finished or set in stone yet so I don't want to let too much out of the bag) some people will still bristle if I just use "his" as a generic possessive pronoun. There are no good options.

529

(87 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

Version 0.01.

It's not a coherent piece of work, it's not nearly finished, blah blah, but I think you'll see the basic ideas so far. This isn't a new game, just a slight variation of the game, where the differences here can be ported over to other games, or ignored entirely.

One problem I'm having doing the basic writeup of the rules is that I'll be having a tutorial booklet in the box which will introduce a lot of game concepts, so I'm not sure how to introduce them in the rules book. Should it also be explanatory, or assume the reader has either a working knowledge of the tutorial or traditional gaming in general?

Also, I seem to be wavering on whether to use pronouns or not. ah well.

Anyway, here's a first look, the "rehearsal tape" version.

530

(87 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

Geoffrey wrote:

Clive Barker? He doesn't quite seem to fit, IMO.

The thing is, I haven't read anything Barker has written in the past 20 years. But up to that point? He absolutely does. (the reason I stopped reading is because absolutely everything after the Books of Blood seemed to have the same plot...) I could take pretty much everything, strip them of modern trappings, and run them as adventures, and they'd fit my style more than Leiber or Howard.

531

(87 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

For the reading guide, I'm thinking of it being a 16 page booklet (no cover), with one page per suggested author and an introduction. Remember, this list is intended for someone that just fell off the turnip truck as far as having an interest in this kind of thing.

My prelim author list:

Definites

  • Barker, Clive

  • Howard, Robert E

  • Leiber, Fritz (the amorality of the Fafhrd & Grey Mouser tales bothered Maria to no end, heehee... not standard fantasy fare - as it's thought of today, anyway)

  • Lovecraft, HP (mandatory, in an "encountering the unknown" more than a "MASTER OF HORROR!" way)

  • Moorcock, Michael

  • Poe, Edgar Allan (if I had to name just one author and leave it at that...)

  • Smith, Clark Ashton

  • Tolkien, JRR (as a worldbuilder and presenter of bittersweet endings - not campaign structure!)

  • Vance, Jack (more The Dying Earth than Cugel's stuff, in this case)

  • Verne, Jules

  • Wells, HG

Maybes:

  • Anderson, Poul (might be too "standard RPG fantasy" stuff, but I've only read Three Hearts & Three Lions and The Broken Sword)

  • Arneson and Gygax (Talking about Dungeons and Dragons as an inspirational source rather than any compatibility in game terms - too cheesy to do since this would be so obviously different than any other entry?)

  • Burroughs, Edgar Rice (too 'adventurey'? I honestly haven't read his stuff, which I'd need to before writing anything, so I'm just thinking of reputation here. I have a compiled Martian Chronicles book but the physical book is a pain in the ass to handle - incompetent publisher!)

  • Carrol, Lewis (only read the Alice books... is that a strong enough base for inclusion? Might as well pile in Swift for Gulliver's Travels, Oscar Wilde for The Portrait of Dorian Gray, etc... where to draw the line since we're talking authors, not specific stories?)

  • Dunsany, Lord (wait, in alphabetizing names, is Lord treated this way?)

  • Merritt, A. (always has strong weird mysterious beginnings which end in adventure fisticuffs... maybe the wrong atmosphere for a top 15)

  • Shelley, Mary (only read one book... enough for inclusion?)

  • Stoker, Bram (He did things like The Lair of the White Wyrm and others besides Dracula... but I'm worried his inclusion will send the wrong message... and what's with the Abrahams shortening their names?)

Comments? Additions? Or should I leave it at the top 11 up there and make it a 12-page pamphlet?

532

(87 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

"Warning

Police officers, psychiatrists, religious figures, teachers, and concerned parents have claimed that role-playing games are harmful to the mind and are the cause of aberrant behavior, occult involvement, mental illness, and even suicide.

The author can not substantiate any of these claims, but can confirm after a quarter of a century's involvement with role-playing games that many believe he is out of his mind.

Therefore, only those who possess a keen intellect and a powerful imagination should risk the purported dangers found within these pages. All others should stay awa for they are not prepared to handle this powerful and intense hobby."

533

(87 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

I'll deal with the artwork when the writing is closer to completion.

I'll have a rough prelim (and far from complete) rules document to present on the 1st.

In the meantime, the name I'm going to use for the project is LotFP Weird Fantasy Role-Playing.

534

(87 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

Geoffrey wrote:

1. I wouldn't worry about interior art.

There would be the box art, plus at least color covers for all of the interior booklets (if I'm going to do this, I'm not going to do it right), plus each interior booklet at the very least needs artwork to fill the empty page area at the end of every section.

Geoffrey wrote:

It couldn't be something to turn-off the adults ("Damn kids and their computers and manga") or the kids ("What the hell is this lame crap?").

If I can make it happen, it's going to be a photo, big, bright, and colorful. Getting the clothes and armor to look decent (= banged up and muddy) and not awful will be key though. Can't use it if it looks like a posed photo...

535

(87 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

Geoffrey wrote:

James, what about the 6th book you mentioned in your blog?

This is all sooooooooooo far away so plans are just fiction at this point anyway, but I'm already worried about cost. People have been having a cow about RPG prices lately, and those are for games with 5-figure print runs. This project would have a 500 copy print run and with all this stuff, even if I plan on packing the boxes myself, is going to be expensive, and that's before figuring in that I'd have to ship it across the ocean to most of the people buying it. (not to mention all the artwork necessary for the project...) Boxes are not cheap; packed boxes in short runs are less so.

I mean, even if I kept the material costs of the project down to 10€ a pop (which is not likely), adding in a less-than-usual markup and the crappy currency conversion rate, we might be looking at a $75 price tag, before shipping. People will bitch and moan and complain while I'm sitting here freaking out about the 5000€+ risk I just took. tongue However, if the plans I'm making actually come to fruition (still haven't heard from the feature model for the photo shoot...), it would look pretty.

That sixth book hasn't been forgotten though. I was just thinking today that it's part of the project I should outsource.

Thanks for the help so far.

Jeff wrote:

Some online commenter suggested adding contrast to the shrine map's negative space. I filled the negative space quickly in Photoshop (magic wand tool at 90% tolerance selects grid but not walls) and the legibility gain is HUGE. I can email you a layered PSD file if you like.

Looks like I have a project today! I filled in the negative space for the 2nd printing of the print version (and wiped out the scale and compass points altogether, gakk!), but didn't do that to the pdf since it would make printing it an absolute nightmare. However, there really is no reason I can't simply erase the lines in the negative space and end up with a much better looking pdf map that can still be printed if people want to do that.

I have a project today!

Fix the map legend.

Add in an extra note in the opening hallway that it travels toward the north, not the east.

Add a note to location #3 that "fresh tooth" means "tooth that has not previously been in a basin" rather than "immediately out of a living mouth."

Add a note to location #22 clarifying/revising what awakens the thing in the pit.

What else is needed? Have you spotted any typos?

538

(87 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

giantbat wrote:

I'm not going to comment on the ones I would do different.

Then there's no point of me babbling about it in public. I'd rather hear it now than in six months or a year or whatever when I can't change it anymore. tongue

539

(87 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

Opening Thoughts About Rules:

It'll be OGL of course, since making a full system from scratch that resembles Our Favorite Game would be quite impossible without it. The game itself would be advertised as a "Standalone Game," while the line of adventures would be "Compatible with a number of traditional fantasy RPGs including LotFP Traditional Fantasy Role-Playing, Labyrinth Lord, Swords & Wizardry, Early D&D editions," blah blah.

It'll model "Basic" rather than "Advanced" games.

My goal is to present some interesting rules variations to give the game its own flavor, but change none of the outward-facing elements. 100% compatibility with all the modules out there for various games and editions, even if the rules don't match up exactly. No tinkering that alters the basic structure.

Examples:

I'm planning on striking Raise Dead and Resurrection from the spell lists. People coming back to life just doesn't happen in this game as a matter of course.

Dispel Magic can be used to permanently disenchant magic items.

Armor and horses will cost a lot more.

That sort of thing, where the game will feel different but you can pick up any module and play it with no conversion beyond adjusting the AC a bit, depending on what game the original adventure was intended for.

The monster section will look wildly different than any game out there, as it'll be more a toolkit than anything else. It won't be as extensive or too closely resemble the Creature Generator (not going to screw around with Goodman like that), but it'll have a similar idea. The "classics" won't be there; it'll be animals, iconic (outside of gaming) monsters like zombies, vampires, and giants, and the toolkit.

This might make modules more exotic to the theoretical person that discovers role-playing through my game. "This adventure has an OGRE! Wow, that's nasty!"

What do you think?

So I've been making some inquiries here and there about retail distribution. Three things seem to be clear:

  • Adventures are very low margin product, and distributor cuts chop chop chops even deeper into that margin.

  • However, as a sustainable business model, "Just get a few internet vendors to sell the stuff" doesn't seem to be pulling in the big bucks.

  • Going into distribution with adventures means depending on Labyrinth Lord and Swords & Wizardry to get to the distribution destinations first, else I'll be sitting on shelves as a support product for a game that's not there.

One solution stands out: Make my own game. Which would of course be a retro-clone. But this would give me a higher-margin item (since full games seem to sell much more than adventures do) and a proprietary brand, which is good for business, and it would solve the problem of relying on other companies to be present in markets I want to be. If people carry my modules, chances are they'll be carrying my game, too.

The Paizo plan, basically.

Three problems with this:

  • The world needs another clone game like it needs a hole in the head.

  • It seems skeezy to make product decisions based on business need, instead of treating the creative and the financial portions of the business separately. I'll be "selling out."

  • I'd then be in competition with Swords & Wizardry and Labyrinth Lord, and the scene doesn't need further fragmentation of that sort, nor do I want to cause any friction with either Finch or Proctor.

So if this is going to be done (and I have other priorities for some months yet), the product would have to be justifiable on a level beyond "It helps Jim's business." It would need to be a product that would be awesome on its own merits.

I'd talked about this some time back, but I always hoped it would be someone else that would actually do it.

But my idea would be to make an all-in-one box set. Rules, tutorials, dice, even a friggin pencil and graph paper. Everything you need to game, right there in the box, and accessible even to someone that's never played RPGs before and doesn't have anyone to show them how.

The present plan for the box:

  • 1 Tutorial Booklet, introducing the rules and concepts, doing a "choose your own adventure" solo adventure, and basically using the Mentzer Basic intro as a guide to format

  • 1 Rules Booklet. Character creation, combat and adventuring rules, spell descriptions, etc.

  • 1 Referee Booklet, including monsters, treasure, adventure design

  • 1 Beginner (for referees and players) Dungeon Adventure

  • 1 Beginner Wilderness Adventure

  • 1 Inspirational Reading Booklet

  • Dice

  • Reference Sheets

  • Pencil + Pad of Graph Paper

It probably won't be cheap, but I won't go for extravagant either. I'll do saddle-stitched booklets, color covers for the booklets and adventures but black and white interior art. A5 sized box.

I'm putting this here instead of on the blog because right now this is just an idea, and not anything actually happening. And I'm looking for feedback and ideas about how to move forward. The priority for the next long while will still be adventures, with the full game idea being something that gets constructed little by little over time.

Thoughts?

541

(3 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

This has bothered me all morning.

I'll just go ahead and say that I think my entire style of gaming would be unplayable with "one chance per character only" secret doors.

That Grinding Gear has necessary secret doors was a function of several things coming together, with the guy intentionally setting up a dungeon to screw with adventurers. They are there specifically as a time sink, not as things which are not meant to be found.

Death Frost Doom's secret doors are another trick - remember one is given away by the painting in the cabin so it should be easy to find. But quite costly to open... the ungimmicked secret door in that room was originally not going to be there at all, but requiring the sacrifice of someone in the party would have just been too cruel.

Insect Shrine has no *necessary* secret doors, but there is one point where saying "nope, can't search anymore, you blew it" would make the party look like friggin morons.

Old Miner's Shame has but one secret door, but it has a fully described mechanism, and my players found the trigger to open the door before they found the door itself.

I'm not sure which project will be next after those, but the way I use secret doors, not being able to find them will result in missing out on a good deal of treasure or missing strategic opportunities where not finding the secret door means blundering head-on into something best not blundered head on into.

(I love that sentence. tongue)

542

(3 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

giantbat wrote:

Can you draw a line, distinct or fuzzy, between fear attacks and fright mechanics?

I see them as very distinct things.

I never use passive fear effects like that of a mummy or a dragon (referring to the AD&D mechanics for both right now), for instance. I do find it weird that the dragon fear works two ways (one way is automatic flight, the other way is either flight or paralyzed with fear), and the mummy fear is just the too frightened to move variety.

But why a mummy is somehow more frightening than a zombie or ghoul or wight, I don't know. That a 0 level guy that sees a dragon is going to run for a minimum of forty minutes, and a maximum of FOUR STRAIGHT HOURS, is just silly.

Active magical abilities and flat-out psychic assaults (I use this in Death Frost Doom) are a different matter, I think.

Sanity and Fright systems seem to confuse different things, and to me seem to just be a hammer that games use to enforce genre and force players to "role-play properly." CoC seems to think that being exposed to the true nature of the universe and dealing with monsters and magic leads to the same thing as dealing with mundane horrors that any emergency services personnel might encounter on a bad day.

If it was merely some sort of "Keep Your Cool" characteristic to prevent a mild-mannered accountant from reacting to situations the same way as a twenty year police veteran, that's one thing, but a characters' "Cool" should improve drastically on each contact - that mild-mannered accountant isn't going to be bothered at the end of a rough night by the same thing that freaked him out to start the night.

Same thing with the supernatural and magic and such. The idea that humanity is in its little shell, ignorant of the real truth of the universe and the forces that control it. The tearing of that veil might be stressful, but once you realize the Necronomicon isn't making all of that up, what further mental breaks are there? Seeing your first monster?

In either case, I think that the lowering of the "mental hit points" would mean a character staying more in control as their normal lives as shattered. The "insanity" is built-in to the role-playing experience... PCs dealing the magic and cultists and monsters are going to seem eccentric at best, and most likely absolutely batshit insane to the man on the street, what with their propensity for violence, paranoia, belief in impossible things. No need for a mechanic.

Two SAN 0 characters from fiction: Jack Bauer and Ashley J. Williams.

543

(3 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

giantbat wrote:

As documented in the Death Frost Doom Experiences thread, I struggled with adjudicating the secret door in the High Priest's Temple. The characters suspected a secret door was present, rolled to find it, and failed. We've been using Moldvay Basic as the rules foundation for the campaign, and reference to page B21 provided: "Each character has only one chance to find each secret door." I readily made it an interactive challenge after that, but I hit a mental block and couldn't think of a mechanism for the secret door. Thankfully the player came up with a good idea on his own and I went with that.

See, I started with Mentzer and then moved on to AD&D, and neither has language like that. I can honestly say it had never occurred to me that anyone would use a "one chance only" rule to find secret doors. In fact, with probabilities, to me that sounds like most secret doors won't be found, period, if characters only get one chance. That's... really messed up. It's hard to believe that there was a two-year period in history when four rooms in B1 weren't really meant to be found except on some off chance.

Checking the various rulebooks now, it seems that only Moldvay (and Labyrinth Lord... *sigh*) have this language. OD&D, S&W, 1e, OSRIC, Mentzer, and Holmes do not say anything about getting only one try, just that an attempt takes one turn.

I just assume, lacking any specific information on a particular door, that it's of the "find the hidden catch/press or twist a certain stone and the door opens" generic variety. The classic module are full of "generic" secret doors like this.

544

(1 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

In the version I ran at home (both the early 2008 Vaasa version and the early 2009 Helsinki version), there were three dungeon levels, not two. The "extra" level of the dungeon was in between the two included in the module.

It was rather unremarkable in every way, but for two. The map was drawn to be a mapper's nightmare, with lots of odd angles and asymmetrical rooms. I am still going to keep that idea locked away in my brain, but it's got to mean something in the end. Making mapping hard just for the purpose of making mapping hard would have fit the theme of this dungeon perfectly, but aside from the map and one room, the level was meaningless.

In that one room, I put a weird monster in it each time I ran it. My idea, when I had this adventure in my folder before I started publishing "for real," was to release the adventure and generate a different monster (using the Creature Generator) in that room for each individual copy sold. Then I'd sit back and see how long it took people to figure out that nobody had an identical module.

It seemed like a cool idea when I was releasing things that sold a couple dozen copies... but it's just not feasible now.

545

(13 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

Zak S. wrote:

also, why is "designer's notes" in quotes?  If it's at all like DFD then these are simply designer's notes, straight up.

I'll look at the other line, but I put the quotes there because it's written sort of in-character. Not "I did this as a writer because," but writing as if the character in the module was doing it. "Garvin did this because..."

546

(13 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

http://www.lotfp.com/RPG/products/grinding-gear

The project goes to press tomorrow. I've set up the product page on the site, incorporating some of the suggested changes. Did I make it better? Worse?

547

(7 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

It's official:

Death Frost Doom encourages more amateur dentistry than any other release in the history of role-playing.

I hope they get to the Greater Tombs. I don't think I've seen anybody mention their players getting back there yet.

Cool writeup. big_smile

http://lotfp.blogspot.com/2009/10/grind … dates.html

There's the cover art...

http://lotfp.blogspot.com/2008/12/anoth … -cool.html

http://lotfp.blogspot.com/2008/06/it-begins-again.html

Second printing is done and was picked up today. The first vendor that will have them is Germany's Sphärenmeisters Spiele.