• From: Dallas, TX
  • Registered: 2010-08-16
  • Posts: 53

Topic: Language House Rules: too much?

Because of a passing interest in linguistics and a desire for "realism" I've added a few house rules to the Languages roll.

  1. BEGINNING LANGUAGES: Each character begins with two languages, one a "common" language for the starting region of the campaign.  The second is either another widely used language or a specialized language for the class or race.  (E.g. Latin or Greek for Clerics, Elfin for Elves, Gaelic, Arabic, or Aklo for Magic Users, etc.)

  2. LANGUAGE FAMILIES: Some languages are grouped into families.  (Earth examples include Catalan, French, Portuguese, and Spanish, or Danish, Norwegian, and Swedish.)  The Languages roll is at +1 for a language in the same family as one a character already knows.  "Dialects" count as separate languages in the same family.

  3. RARE OR DEAD LANGUAGES: Some languages may be uncommon enough to incur a -1 or -2 penalty to the Languages roll, reflecting the diminished chance of a character having just "picked it up somewhere".  This penalty is cumulative with the Language Family bonus.  Examples in a European milieu might include Latin (except for educated folks), Greek (ditto), Hebrew, Ethiopian, or Hindi.

  4. UNKNOWN LANGUAGES: In some cases a Languages roll might impossible.  Medieval Earth examples might be Ancient Egyptian, Linear B, or a Native American language (assuming Native Americans were wholly unknown before contact).  The pipings of Elder Things would also qualify.

  5. WRITTEN LANGUAGES:  In MOST cases, knowing how to speak a language implies knowing how to read or write it unless a character is defined as illiterate.  (Referee or player decision.)  Exceptions are as follows:

    1. LOGOGRAMS: Logographic languages like Chinese represent words, not sounds.  Native speakers will typically know both spoken or written forms,   Others must learn the spoken and written forms separately.  On the plus side, the written form can be a common "language" of multiple spoken language communities (again, like Chinese).

    2. COMMON ALPHABETS: Many languages use the same "script", e.g. nearly all European languages use Roman letters.  If a character knows the "script" of a language (e.g. Roman letters) but not the exact language (e.g. German, Spanish, Latin, Romanian) he can attempt to sound out the written form.  What comes of his mouth might be unintelligible or offensive (Referee's decision).  This doesn't work with logographic languages, of course.

    3. SPOKEN ONLY: Some languages have NO canonical written form.  Knowing the spoken language will grant no written form, even if someone later develops a written form.  Cherokee, for example, had no written form until 1821, and presumably it was slow to catch on.

    4. SYNTHETIC ALPHABETS: The modern International Phonetic Alphabet can represent the sounds of almost any language, and one might postulate a fictional equivalent in one's game world.  Again the results might be accurate, ludicrous, or offensive.

    5. MULTIPLE ALPHABETS: Some languages have canonical written forms in multiple scripts.  For example, Yiddish commonly uses Hebrew letters but, as a dialect of German, could just as easily use Roman letters.  Someone who knows both German and Hebrew might have a bonus to their Languages check to also know Yiddish; someone who knows Yiddish might likewise have a bonus to learn Hebrew.

    6. COMPLEX SCRIPTS: In medieval Japan most women wrote entirely in Hiragana, a syllabic form of writing; "educated" Japanese write in a mixture of Kanji (logograms derived from Chinese), Hiragana (for word endings and particles), and Katakana (a spiky syllabic script equivalent to Hiragana).  Referees may decide that some, all, or none of these alternate forms need to be "learned" as a distinct language.

  6. SIGNS: Some groups or cultures have a form of "writing" that conveys simple concepts but isn't a true writing system, e.g. hobo signs.  In these cases, the player must interpret and learn these signs.

Whew, that was a bit long.

Anyway, I'm looking for opinions on these rules, specifically, is this too fiddly?  Especially since I'm not setting my campaign in a fantasy world, not Earth?

Last edited by fmitchell (2012-12-15 02:42:55)

Frank Mitchell
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." -- Anatole France

fmitchell's Website

  • Registered: 2012-11-12
  • Posts: 75

Re: Language House Rules: too much?

An in depth study of language can add wonderful color and texture to a world; even if they are not part of normal game interactions. Just the detail they add to the world builders understanding of the place will aid in description and complexity. So, hell yeah develop languages.
As for using language rolls at the table, I just make the group roll and then speak in pigeon tongue and riddles to simulate different levels of understanding. Its kind of gimmicky and so I don't even go that far on a regular basis, only to highlight instances in which the party is among a foreign people.
Anything more detailed than that has led to the players getting bored and not caring about my well designed dialects and linguistic histories. Voices and spoken language are not my strong suits as a DM though, so try it out, if the players start to look bored just forego the rolls and try something else out.
As for your work specifically; it looks great. Really neat ideas and well ordered thoughts that will serve well re. defining different groups of NPC's. Think I may copy that and stick it in my notebook for future reference. TY

  • Registered: 2011-06-29
  • Posts: 194

Re: Language House Rules: too much?

Looks pretty good!.

Here's a couple of suggestions in the interest of making things better.

Why not make # of additional languages equal to Int bonus, such that if a character has a -1 or less they can't even speak their own language well (heavy dialect or some such thing).

I'd say that in almost any pre-1700's game that it is the exception rather than the norm to be literate, though, clocking in at 10% or less.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/sho … eval-world

Finally, the unknown languages could have no analog, but people can take them with DM approval.

  • From: Dallas, TX
  • Registered: 2010-08-16
  • Posts: 53

Re: Language House Rules: too much?

Lord Inar wrote:

Here's a couple of suggestions in the interest of making things better.

Why not make # of additional languages equal to Int bonus, such that if a character has a -1 or less they can't even speak their own language well (heavy dialect or some such thing).

In the RAW the Int modifier adds to the Languages roll, so that feels a bit like double-counting.  Also, I don't regard Intelligence as an absolute measure of brain power, merely as the character's ability to handle complex concepts (like magic).  I can imagine an adventurer who isn't book-smart but can speak a little bit of everything.  IIRC, so could Robert E. Howard.

Lord Inar wrote:

I'd say that in almost any pre-1700's game that it is the exception rather than the norm to be literate, though, clocking in at 10% or less.

True, in a historical game.  Charlemagne encouraged literacy in his realm, but couldn't read or write himself.  However, in a game it's handy to assume that at least the player characters can read and write.

Finally, the unknown languages could have no analog, but people can take them with DM approval.

I'd reserve "unknown" languages for the following circumstances:

  • Tantalizing but untranslatable inscriptions on ancient ruins.  Unless the characters find a Rosetta stone or a living translator, they'll never know about the ancient curse ...

  • Languages of previously unknown peoples or civilizations.  The characters would have to spend significant game time to learn the language, assuming one or more willing teachers or superhuman observational skills.

  • Languages unpronounceable by a human throat.  Someone with keen hearing or musical ability might have a chance of learning the language, but they'd never be able to speak it without magical or technological aid.  (Think Han and Chewie.)

I've also speculated on presenting word puzzles, e.g. a partial translation or dictionary is available, but the players must fill in the gaps.  (E.g. words on a Space Alien device.)  That might be too much for some players, but then again Tower of the Stargazer had a chess game in the middle of the adventure.

Last edited by fmitchell (2012-12-15 10:31:51)

Frank Mitchell
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." -- Anatole France

fmitchell's Website