I found mention of an adventure generator but nothing about the new Ref book having a new adventure in it. Or will it reprint A Stranger Storm?
2 2011-11-12 20:09:37
Re: LotFP Binding (5 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
The only issue I have had is with the Grindhouse edition books. The color printing on the spines began to wear off after only a month of use. This is almost always an issue with perfect bound color covers though, and not exclusive to LotFP. I remember when the hacker zine 2600 went perfect bound from saddle stitched for a year and had the same problem. They switched back to saddle stitch afterwards.
I covered the spines on all the books with a strip of packaging tape to prevent further wear.
The answer is a hardcover LotFP, ha!!
3 2011-10-25 01:58:13
Re: Important item missing from character sheet? (12 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
I believe the roll to surprise is made by the referee. So the score shown on the character sheet shows what the referee needs to roll for monsters and NPCs to achieve surprise against that character, and not anything that the characters would ever roll themselves
It works the same as all other skill rolls, equal or lower to succeed.
4 2011-10-15 18:13:56
Re: So what should magic weapons look like? (32 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
If you change the way weapon bonuses are utilized by shifting from modifiers that apply to the attacker's to hit dice role, to effects that change the target's base AC and then derived modified AC, this is a major change to the system mechanics. Period. Modifiers on the attack have their effect upon die rolls, not upon the target. How a game handles armor class and to hit rolls is a core element of the games design.
Don't believe me? Here is a a quote directly from the Lamentations of the Flame Princess Referee book, page four:
"Here are the fundamental parts of this game:
*The six ability scores which give certain adjustments for all characters
*Character classes with capabilities separate from ability scores
*Levels gained by experience points and the accumulation of abilities based on that level
*Hit points, armor class, how to hit
*Saving throws
*Memorized/prepared spells
And that’s it. What the ability scores are, what
they adjust, what the classes are and what their
powers are, what experience is awarded for,
what happens when one gains a level, and the
categories of saving throws, all of these things
can be changed. Everything not related to these
points is completely irrelevant for defining
what the game is and can be discarded or mod-
ified or replaced as you like.
You are the Referee. If you don’t like something,
change it.
But it is always a good idea to understand the
rules and see what they are trying to do before
you decide they should be changed or replaced."
There you see a list of the fundamental mechanics of the game, or rather what makes it Lamentations. You, as a DM can change your game, sure, but notice that James does not recommend changing those core mechanisms, just small aspects of them. In this context the changes are mostly just changes to a game terms name, not to the system itself.
If you change the mechanic of how magical weapons to hit bonus works, you change item four in the above.
A change to a monsters AC is also a change to four above.
A change to how spells work is a change to four and six above.
So that is three fundamental mechanics changed with your ignoring non-magical armor class idea.
But if you still do not agree, then read on....
You would absolutely need to change spell hit and damage descriptions in order to account for this new system. If each creature has a shifted AC that a DM has objectively determined based upon his own views about a monsters physiology and what aspects of its defensive capabilities are magical and non-magical, then these same changes would apply to spells, and possibly other forms of attacks and damage, like holy water or oil fire. Or do you honestly believe that magical spells and magical weapons should operate on wholly different resolution mechanics within a single combat?
If you cannot see the implications of changing this mechanic, and the amount of work it would unnecessarily place upon the GM (see below for how to handle power creep) then I don't know what other arguments to make to you.
Go to http://odd74.proboards.com/index.cgi and post your idea.
And also ask them what the fundamental and core mechanics of D&D, OSR, and LotFP magical weapon damage happen to be. Maybe I am not being clear enough.
The Degenerate Elite wrote:
Proposed rule variations do not, in general, attempt to replace core game mechanics...
Ed Dove wrote:
And this proposal doesn't do that, either -- unless you consider magic weapons, armor & shields having plusses to be core game mechanics of LotFP even though the only time the LotFP rules even mention the possibility of magic weapons, armor & shields having plusses is when they're saying not to do that.
LotFP is based upon Dungeons and Dragons 0e, with some bit of Holmes and Moldvay - it has pluses that add to a weapons, and magical weapons, attack role. That is a fundamental mechanic of the game system. They do not subtract from AC. Most do not even provide pluses to damage. A change from this IS a mechanics change.
Ed Dove wrote:
1) Replace the game mechanism that's most commonly & easily used to make magic weapons, armor & shields increasingly powerful -- plusses -- with something that doesn't have any set numerical value, and so can't be easily increased, to at least inhibit, if not prevent, a qualitative magical arms race.
So please explain how you are not advocating changing the game mechanism?
And again your basis for this "rules fix" is that an arms race exists in any game where a GM allows players to use plus magical weapons. This is fallacious and patently untrue. A GM is NEVER obligated to provide more weapons and more armor simply because the player desires them. This is, in fact, poor game mastering. Gygax himself called the handing out of magic items wholesale as"Monty Haul" gaming and advised to avoid it
You MAY provide a few +1 or +2 weapons in order to allow your campaign to progress to more difficult dungeon levels and to allow players to slay monsters by allowing characters to hit creatures that are immune to normal attacks. That is all.
The original D&D had provision for a +3 sword, spear, shield, and warhammer, as well as a few weapons that got +3 against certain enemies, nothing else. These four items would be fantastic artifacts obtained only at the highest levels of a campaign and probably after many, many PC deaths. They are more party rewards for dedicated play than they are individual awards for power gamers.
I apologize if this comes off as mean or bull-headed but you have some good ideas, I just want you to understand why this is not one of them.
5 2011-10-15 12:08:49
Re: So what should magic weapons look like? (32 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
Weapons in OSR rules, like 0D&D and Lamentations, generally modify the to hit dice roll and not the AC. This amounts to the same thing in most cases but there are some important differences. I think this fundamental is what your proposed idea undermines and therefore leads to the many problems, and loopholes, that you are failing to see.
I understand the base armor class. The Base Armor Class of 12 in this game applies to unarmored characters, it is not always the same with monsters. The Referee book states only that the AC on monsters should be relatable to the AC of characters.Your weapon would almost always be used against something with base armor class 12, since most monsters (men) have only their armor to rely on. Most modifiers from attributes apply to classed characters and size modifiers are uncommon since man-sized creatures are the norm in LotFP. Even when these modifiers apply, they will seldom adjust the AC more than a couple of points upwards. You are making the assumption that all the modifiers that adjust armor class are common enough and numerous enough to offset ignoring armor, and that just is not the case.
LotFP uses ascending armor class so modifiers add to your AC with Dexterity being the most common and requiring an 18 in the attribute for +3, 16-17 for +2, and a minimum 13 for +1. High dex NPCs who gain this modifier would be fairly rare.
Next, we have the Combat Options adjustment, where the best AC aid is to parry. You can add to AC by parrying +2 or +4 depending on class, but this makes you lose your attack or other action that round, so is a temporary measure at best.
Weapons, magic, and etc. all generally apply to the to hit dice roll that the attacker makes, as stated above, and so do not directly modify the AC of the target. While the end result may look the same as modifying the target's AC, the two are not the same. The adjusted AC is what a die is rolled against to hit (the THAC0 concept of later AD&D). So we see that in the majority of situations the Adjusted final armor class of the man-like target will be based almost exclusively upon armor worn.
Ed Dove wrote:
Third, the Armor Classes of magical/unnatural/Chaotic/whatever creatures & beings aren't (in most cases) from non-magical armor, so magic weapons that ignore non-magical armor won't give any benefit at all against them, either.
This is where I get the idea that your weapon is useless against most magical beings. And the confusion leading from such statements perfectly illustrates the problem with you weapon variation. It reverses the way magical weapons to hit bonuses work by subtracting from AC, or resorting to base AC with modifiers, rather than modifying the player's to hit roll. Modifiers in combat will usually modify the attackers roll, not vice versa.
Ed Dove wrote:
How so? What sort of rules and exceptions are you imagining?
The only trouble I can think of at all is just deciding which creatures have non-magical armor-like body characteristics (all of which seem pretty obvious to me), what sort of armor those characteristics are like (which also seems pretty obvious to me, too), and which creatures have magical armor-like characteristics (which each referee can just decide for themself however they want). And none of that seems to me like much trouble at all. In fact, it’s just some of the stuff referees already have to think about anyway. But, using these ideas, it’d just have some extra applications. That’s all.
In order to make your weapons work, you would have examine and reinterpret the AC characteristics of every single stated monster that exists in OD&D, Lamentations, Labyrinth Lord, Moldvay D&D, Homes D&D, and etc. so that you could reconfigure them, based upon your own assumptions of what their defenses entail. At the bare minimum you would have to write a conversion system that would allow another GM to make the same sort of assumptions about monster defense that you arrived at so that they could change existing monsters or create new monsters on their own. This would make your system incompatible with base OSR games without conversion and also modify tested and existing game systems for the hypothetical benefit of preventing a magical arms race that can be prevented simply by not giving players a lot of magical items in the first place.
Such a change in monster defenses and adjustment of modified AC would require a change in spell effects, which assume the previous game mechanics, as well as any other numbers of subsystems. You would essentially need to rewrite most of the game with regard to how damage is handled and how to hit numbers are arrived at.
This changing of core game concepts, from reversing what magical weapons modify to redefining monster defense values is what makes this run counter to the principles of these games. Proposed rule variations do not, in general, attempt to replace core game mechanics; this change is more of a new game system concept and therefore more applicable if you were writing a new game entirely.
6 2011-10-14 21:09:22
Re: So what should magic weapons look like? (32 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
I think the armor could exert its ego by physically by inhibiting a user who did not bend to its will. Maybe locking the arm tight during combat or tripping the character up at some crucial moment. The armor refusing to aid the player, in other words. A character that gave in to the armor entirely could face possible takeover such as what is possible with high ego swords. This armor is a fantastic idea, maybe even having it be part of some set with a shield and weapon that helped shape the history of some ancient empire or something. Lots of possiblilites.
Back to Ed...
Maybe I am confused here but, how does ignoring non-magical armor mean you don't ignore AC, it is derived from the type of armor that is worn? With no armor you are AC 12. If you ignore non-magical the AC goes to 12 - otherwise you are not actually ignoring the armor at all, just adding in some negative modifier that would keep the AC lower than 12. Granted the normal To Hit mods would still apply, as they would with normal and magical armor.
With regard to monsters and animals, many of them use AC as a composite for lots of different characteristics, and we are not just talking dragons and purple worms, but bears and wolves as well; speed, dexterity, hide thickness, scaly plates, phasing in and out of existence, training, etc. A magical weapon which does not help against mundane critters and men, especially in LotFP seems like a pretty useless weapon for most adventuring situations, or at least no better than a standard sword. Coupled with your idea of the sword not helping against magical creatures, whose AC is based on many of the previously mentioned items in addition to actual armor, makes it useless in all situations. A major reason to obtain a magical sword in the first place, so you can actually connect with wraiths and other such things that require magic attacks to hit them. From what I can tell based on what you listed the weapon would only help against normal armored men and nothing else.
I think overall, a weapon ignoring armor is more trouble than it is worth at least not without exhaustive rules and exceptions, which runs counter to playing OSR game systems in the first place.
I like weapons that do either +1 to hit or +1 to wound only, not both. Against magical critters that require magical attacks to hit, then that is the bonus to hit right there ---you get to attempt to hit (assuming a wounding sword, a plus to hit would apply as normal).
I think all items should be rare and have a back story, but relics and artifacts should be absolutely unique. A masterfully crafted sword with a permanent sharpness spell that grant +1 to wound could exist in multiple forms. But a specific Orb of Endless Rain would be unique. Or something like that.
7 2011-10-14 16:57:44
Re: [OT] The Grindhouse Dice (5 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
I want a hardcover A5 rulebook. Pretty please?
8 2011-10-14 16:55:42
Re: City on the Ice-Choked Sea (19 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
This is great. An awful lot to absorb, so I will pop back with some comments after another read or two.
9 2011-10-14 16:05:48
Re: So what should magic weapons look like? (32 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
In response to Ed...
Wouldn't making magic weapons ignore regular armor just lead to everything the party encounters that would normally wear armor and be hit at a base AC 12, doning magic armor just in order to survive?
This would lead to a proliferation of magic armor, which is almost worse than plus hit weapons.
Personally, +1 or maaaaybe +2 weapons as heirloom items or Hanzo style master weapons is fine with me. It can help extend a characters pride just enough to really get them in deep trouble. But any such weapon has to have a full background story, maybe even others who are seeking it, it can't just be a nice sword. +1 or +2 oddball weapons are great too. Sure the fighter really wants a sword or the dwarf a hammer, but a +1 Pitchfork of Agony or +1 Arrows of Bat Slaying are great as well. They lead to surprising role-play situations. I mean, a crazy magician can make all kinds of stuff for some reason lost to time and replaced by legend.
Anything higher level or with special abilities is a fabled artifact in its own right. I love the ego concept for swords from D&D and believe that it could be perfectly applicable to armor. The Red Carapace would be great with an ego, as would Neko's Orphan Leather Mini-Skirt.
I generally hate simple +1 or whatever magic armor though...go figure.
10 2011-10-14 10:49:33
Re: GM Screen(s) for LotFP (3 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
WOW!! All three of those are amazing for a screen. Maybe I can figure out a way to use three screens at once. Thanks for showing us these.
11 2011-09-25 05:51:56
Re: This is Why the Monolith is Taking So Long (3 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
I would probably just apply "Distance Doesn't Work" literally for ranged spells and missile weapons. The players can still cast and fire all they want but it will never help them out. Touch range spells and cast on self can work as normal. It can appear that the spell or arrow is flying through the air as normal but it never arrives at its target, the destination, just as with player movement. And, I would say there is no real way around this.
Of course being inanimate objects or magical energy and not sentient beings with eyes, this makes the blindfold solution to player movement sort of strange. If anything, I would keep the movement restrictions with regard to all and figure out another possible way to allow the characters to move. Whether this same method could apply to the spells or weapons would
remain to be seen.
It just seems much more fun to hamstring all the movement and range combat in a way to make the players really think, instead of the simple blindfold to pass trick.
As far as speaking goes, I would allow it given if the players are within touch range, since the sound waves don't really travel to their destinations either. It's a cheat but otherwise lack of communication could become a crippling pain, and will be if they move apart.
Where this theory leaves light and it's travel time to the eye in order to view the landscape, though is another matter entirely. I can see your dilemma here James.
12 2011-09-11 06:50:24
Re: LotFP at Tacticon 2011, Denver Colorado (11 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
It was a fantastic game, I'm very pleased that you had a good time. I look forward to seeing you at the next con!!! - john
13 2011-09-02 07:12:32
Re: Where do you record oversize items on the character sheet? (9 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
Weapons count for encumbrance. List them on the encumbrance section as well as the stat listing on the front, along with stacks of ammo, and large items like poles and shields. Armor counts too. Oversized items take up two boxes on the list, just draw arrows to show that second box is filled.
Basically, a fighter (or whatever) in chain, with a missile weapon, melee weapon and some gear WILL start out encumbered. Such is the price of wearing heavier armor.
I often count the standard pack of gear (Backpack, 2 small sacks, bedroll, water skin, tinderbox, and 7 iron rations) as one entry on the encumbrance list also.
And all oversized items are +1 point of encumbrance in addition to a normal slot. This is to show that they are unwieldy or heavy. Drop them before combat.
14 2011-08-26 02:49:23
Re: Difference between the MU and the elf. (20 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
The Dispel applies to monsters and npcs that are classed. The only application to players would be dispelling some sort of magical curses or effects from some magical critters against the pc.
And the M/U version of Dispell Magic makes no such prohibitions anyway, only the cleric version. So the elf just has to cast his own or have another M/U cast it on him. So an evil cleric could be problematic to elves, but an evil M/U is problematic to both classes.
And depending on your DM a M/U could be considered an "intrinsically magical creature", depending upon how magic works in their games; Especially since M/U are chaotic, damned, and shunned in base LotFP.
15 2011-08-25 22:46:09
Re: Difference between the MU and the elf. (20 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
The protection from evil, etc spells also affect magic-users.
Evil is equated with chaotic for alignment for spell purposes. Both elves and m/u are Chaotic since they are casters.
And a DM could interpret this to mean holy water hurts m/u as well as the rules are sort of vague about innately magical beings.
Bless - Does not help in casting or resisting damage from spells - " No rolls relating to damage or anything concerning magic may be modified by Bless"
Dispel Magic - Not sure how you figure m/u are better unless it's a pure level faster thing with this one. "All rules concerning Magic-Users also apply to Elves unless specifically noted" pg 79
16 2011-08-25 22:27:27
Re: The Monolith from beyond Space and Time cover (3 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
I'm excited for this -- these adventures always infuse my games with something new and odd.
I grew up on the old Tom Baker Dr. Who and it is very hard to watch now. Sort of the same thing with the A-Team though, I have no idea why I loved that show as a kid.
17 2011-08-25 22:20:46
Re: Grindhouse box set is $29.99??? (6 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
Nice, I may pick up a spare copy or gift copy at this price.
18 2011-08-25 10:57:35
Re: A Note About Spam (5 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
Oddly though, you have to answer a Captcha is you need a password reset.
I know because I forgot mine.....sigh.
19 2011-08-25 10:55:58
Topic: Grindhouse box set is $29.99??? (6 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
At the US webstore Troll and Toad the Grindhouse box set is selling for $29.99??
Does anyone know if this is right. The description is cut and paste job from the Paizo site, according to italics below it, and mentions the pdf.... but the store says it is 3.5 pounds of shipping and that they have 21 in stock. Which would be odd for a pdf.
Also they don't seem to carry any other LotFP pdfs.
I sent an email to the store but no answer after a few days?
20 2011-08-03 06:46:32
Re: Difference between the MU and the elf. (20 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
That XP progression differential really starts to add up by level 10 or so; 144,000 and it gets worse from there.
Plus you smell like flowers.
21 2011-07-08 20:05:18
Re: Skills(newbie question) (2 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
Many items can also grant bonus skill points when they are used.
- Crowbars grant a +1 to Open Doors for example
I would allow this to be the precedent rule for other items doing the same. Say a grapple hook with rope giving +1 to Climb.
22 2011-07-08 19:40:44
Re: LotFP at Tacticon 2011, Denver Colorado (11 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
Yeah, I figured that Stargazer is a good adventure to showcase the tone that LotFP is geared towards. And it is cool to start at level 1.
If you want to bring your own characters, then roll up two level ones, as per standard rules. Magic - users cannot take Identify, since it requires a lab, or Summoning, as it is too involved for con play.
See you there.
23 2011-06-27 18:00:48
Re: An Aging Question (2 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
That's my reading as well, roll every time the interval year comes up.
24 2011-06-17 04:38:40
Re: LotFP at Tacticon 2011, Denver Colorado (11 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
I was Airborne transferred because they needed Mortars for Bosnia. Never made it back to an airborne unit, but ended up as range support for 10th, blowing up claymores and shooting M-2s all day to burn off ammo for next years budget. Fun times, a lot of good rock climbing in the area.
25 2011-06-16 09:36:29
Re: LotFP at Tacticon 2011, Denver Colorado (11 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)
Yup, I was Army (11C) Mortar Infantry stationed at Fort Carson. Missed all sorts of great stuff between MOUT in Louisiana, Desert laser tag in California, and a deployment to Bosnia/Herzegovina. Uckily my life is much more stable now.