(10 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

vfults wrote:

I'm thinking I'll give the starting pc four skill points at character creation and one point per level to customize their skills.

You could do that. Personally I hate keeping track of skill points and leveling up. I'd probably start everyone with Specialist skills as a 1st level Specialist and allow them to pick 2-3 skills as the ones that improve with level the same as a Specialist. The other skills would not improve.

discuit wrote:

I was basically thinking of just adding a sleight of hand bonus (3 in 6?) and maybe reducing the hiding odds (3 in 6 in both outdoor and indoor) to balance it out,

That sounds fair to me. You might also give a bonus to Saves vs. Fear. That's such a narrow bonus (I mean, how often does that come up?) that I'd just make it a gimme.

Rather than "normalize" (aka, think of a new and appropriate) AC for every monster in the game, I created an attack-progression table for the classes. Every class gets better, though Fighters remain far and away the best. I don't have many house rules for WF (by my standards), but this was a necessary one IMO.

Beedo wrote:

So, you're just figuring out this thread was about taking a Lovecraftian and Weird Fiction approach in a D&D game?

Heh, that's a fair point. The same thought occurred to me while I was typing the reply, so I deleted and re-wrote it several times trying to figure out whether or not to make the critique.

But in the end I decided the question was - "How do you handle the cleric in your games?". (Emphasis mine) So I answered.

Beedo wrote:

Point is, the real world is already full of conflicting mythologies and cosmologies.

The real world doesn't have clerics that can cast Cure Light Wounds on command though, and there's no undead to turn (that I've ever seen)s, so the analogy is of limited value. I totally get where you're coming from, but in "the real world", to the extent people can "do" things it's because they understand and can manipulate universal physical laws. Like thermodynamics and gravity.

Beedo wrote:

Does the DM need to reveal any objective truths to the players about the real cosmology?

No, but to the extent he DOES reveal metaphysical truths, they should promote fun and good play. Not depress people and make them want to turn in their dice and go play Xbox. That's self-defeating.

Unless your players are truly nihilists, and would believe that playing D&D is just as pointless as anything else they can do, so why not, eh? But I don't play with nihilists, so YMMV.

Beedo wrote:

Mechanically, the only issues come into play with higher level spells like commune and plane shift, but there's no reason a player character couldn't contact something, or travel somewhere... just not what they expected...

This doesn't make any sense though, unless you presume that no one in the game world has cast those spells before. Because presumably someone in the Church hierarchy has cast Commune at some time in the past and wrote about their experience. It's in the holy book somewhere. Chapter 3, I think.

I have the same issue with the Speak With Dead spell. If the afterlife is really a lifeless void without pain or pleasure, then presumably this would be common knowledge. It's a 3rd level spell, hardly High Magic. It would only take one guy who could cast the spell a few times (as often as necessary to demonstrate) to show people "This is how it is."

And in the Eberron "belief is power" system, that guy could even be an Anarchist Priest of the God of "Do Whatever The Fuck You Feel Like", so there wouldn't be any religious law preventing him from telling everyone just how depressing the afterlife is. And people would adjust their moral codes accordingly.

The reason we have a thousand religions on Earth is because you never get any definitive answers, just prophets who say stuff but cannot be confirmed. Spells like Commune or Speak With Dead need to either confirm the existence of each God's existence, or be non-committal either way. Because the truth will out, if truth be revealed.

Beedo wrote:

the thought exercise here was how to keep the cleric class in the game while having a vast, impersonal cosmos where there are no (real) deities that are interested in humanity; the folks of the world just made up whatever it is they believed in... Zeus, Thor, the Celestial Teapot... whatever.

Seems like a good way to breed ennui at the gaming table, if you establish that a Cleric's power is directly proportional to his descent into his own schizophrenic delusions. D&D is supposed to be fun, IMO, and that's depressing.

fmitchell wrote:

Actually, this is the situation in Glorantha, the original world of RuneQuest and now HeroQuest.  All myths *are* true, even when they contradict each other.  For example, in the year 374 the sun stopped in the sky ...

Actually, it's crazier than that. Because in a world where belief alone really is all that's necessary, you could have 9 Churches that "explained" why the suns stopped in the sky, one that claimed that the sun hadn't stopped, but in fact that the day turned to night (really. You hallucinated the whole sun-stopping thing. Just like everyone else), and one that believed the sun is a giant rutabaga.

And as long as they really believed it, they'd get spells.

fmitchell wrote:

There's also the Eberron solution: clerical abilities are manifestations of belief, irrespective of whether the object of belief actually exists, or has godlike power.

This is the system I used for a bit. But the errors quickly became evident.

From the PC's point of view, it's no different than having "real" clerics, because all real (i.e., spellcasting) clerics are true believers. There are no agnostics or atheists who can do clerical magic.

But on the other hand, guys who believe in ancestor spirits, or totem poles, or Greek pantheons, are just as effective as the guys who believe in all-powerful monotheisms, and they can't all be right. If ten different Gods all claim to have created the world at some point, and they all grant spells, then clearly there's something crazy going on.

Which would lead any sane non-cleric to conclude that (1) since it's impossible for all of the Gods to exist, and no one God is clearly in control, perhaps none of them exist, and (2) Clerics are really just crazy people (perhaps Chaos-touched), and their craziness is what allows them to tap into some source of power.

Which would pretty quickly become a self-fulfilling prophecy, because in a world where ten competing philosophies all claim world-creation responsibility, and they're all staffed by true believers, only more frothy-mouthed true believers will join the ranks while anyone with even an ounce of skepticism will quickly wash their hands of the whole thing.

So here's the system I use now:

There are Gods. Some are Lawful or Neutral. There are also demons of Chaos of great power. Clerics are the guys who through training and rites have access to the powers these beings can grant. They don't have to be perfect servants to the powers, just good enough. Perform the rites, go through the motions, don't break any of the really important laws, and you're good.


(0 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

Hey folks,

After taking a hiatus from gaming to move my family to Florida and start a new job, I have decided to get back into the swing of things with Weird Fantasy as my core rules. I've written up an introductory town and adventure location for the new campaign and I'd love your thoughts and feedback.

However, I've posted them at the LL forums. I don't normally cross-post, but I faced the reality that if I posted the primary descriptions here I wasn't likely to get as much feedback as I would at Goblinoid Games. <shrug>

Anywho, since WF is the rule set I've chosen to use I thought I'd give this community a chance to read what I've developed and suggest ideas for developing the town/adventure if you have any. Feel free to chime in here or at Proctor's place.

Link --> http://www.freeyabb.com/goblinoidgames/ … inoidgames


(216 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

Hi, I'm Brock. I'm 32, live in Jacksonville Beach, Florida, USA. My first D&D experience was Basic D&D, I think, but I never saw the rule books. I played an M-U and loved it. No one else did though and so it was several years before I found another group.

Most of my game experience is with AD&D 2E (90% as DM) and Iron Heroes d20 (90% as PC). I've also run some old school games intermittently. Having just moved to Florida I am now starting up an old school game for my wife, solo. I may look for additional players eventually.

I absolutely love WF. I had been adapting LL to my tastes, but when I started reading what James was doing I knew most of my work could be set aside. The Specialist is so similar to my Dungeoneer I suspect James saw my posts at the LL boards and just cribbed them. (No worries though, mate - it's cool wink) I also love the flavor text written into the spell descriptions and cleric/magic-user classes. Good stuff.