Topic: House rule: the "dying" state (negative HP)

I was thinking about giving a try on a house rule for making falling to 0 HP an urgent moment but I don't know if it would add much to the game or if it could make things more lethal than intended.

In OD&D a character dies at 0 HP. Rules Cyclopedia introduces an optional rule where a character would make a saving throw against death or instantly die when hitting 0 HP; the same save should be done every 10 minutes or after being hit by an enemy.

In AD&D and (optionally) in 2e a character falls unconscious when hitting 0 HP and loses 1 HP every round, dying when hitting -10 HP. An ally could spend a round to tend his wounds (no roll required) to stop this "dying state".

That made come with something that is kind of a mix of both methods.

What if I apply something like this in a house rule for LotFP? When a character hits 0 HP or less she is dying and must make a death (poison) saving throw or lose 1 HP. If she hits -3 HP she is mortally wounded per RAW. An ally could spend her action to stop this and prevent further damage - I'm not sure if I should call for a roll for this... If so, I'd probably use the new Medicine skill from the playtest of the next edition.

I noticed I was unconsciously emulating 5e death saving throws with this.

What do you think, people?

Re: House rule: the "dying" state (negative HP)

I think your house rule sounds good. Have you played yet? Have you had player deaths or is this more of in anticipation of how it will play out?

I'm almost at the point where my dying rules are gonna be: When you hit zero or less, you're knocked out of combat and are gonna die unless someone helps you after the combat's done. So basically you can live if your party survives, but if it's a TPK or they flee, then you're gone. (If you are saved after hitting negative, then there's a scar, -1 to a random ability score permanently.)

But...not quite there yet, still playing with various house rules too.

Re: House rule: the "dying" state (negative HP)

Crunk Posby wrote:

I think your house rule sounds good. Have you played yet? Have you had player deaths or is this more of in anticipation of how it will play out?

Just an anticipation. Actually, I'm refereeing an OSR game for the first time... My previous experiences as a GM were 12 D&D 5e sessions (for 3 groups, 5/5/2 sessions each) and 7 Vampire: The Masquerade V20 sessions (for 2 groups, 5/2 sessions each).

So my LotFP game has runned for 2 sessions so far and at the last table the Barbarian (Dwarf reskinned) went down to 1 HP and I kept wondering how interesting it would for him to make death saves to both keep him occupied roleplaying his bleeding out moment and to add a sense of urgency for the other players.

If I were to call for saving throws agains death to avoid falling down one more HP and have other characters help him avoid this fate, would you advice me to call for rolls on the helpers too? Or is spending their whole round helping the dying party member enough? We're not using the playtest Medicine skill. What would you advice me while not using this skill? What would you advice me while adding this skill?

Crunk Posby wrote:

I'm almost at the point where my dying rules are gonna be: When you hit zero or less, you're knocked out of combat and are gonna die unless someone helps you after the combat's done. So basically you can live if your party survives, but if it's a TPK or they flee, then you're gone.

Pretty elegant way of dealing wit it! So if the party manages to defeat enemies or flee with your body, they can "stabilize" you, right? No roll required. Neat!

Crunk Posby wrote:

(If you are saved after hitting negative, then there's a scar, -1 to a random ability score permanently.)

I always wondered if scars, lingering injuries and massive damage would be better dealt with ability scores decreases or with death & dismemberment tables.

Crunk Posby wrote:

But...not quite there yet, still playing with various house rules too.

I'm loving playing with those! Actually, it turns out I'm adding minor house rules for the whole Weird Fantasy Roleplaying (to keep it as close to original as possible with minor tweaks) and turning the major house rules into my own systems: I'm creating a "Fey Princess" variant for (heroic) High Fantasy games, a "Draconic Princess" for (epic) absurdilly High Fantasy games - the former being kind of a "5e through B/X lens" and the latter being kind of "Pathfinder through BECMI lens" thing using LotFP as a base. I'm also trying to create a "Sunlight/Ash Princess" for depressive and deadly (Dark Souls) Dark Fantasy games while making a "Terror/Hatred/Destruction Princess" for hack n slashy dungeon crawling (Diablo) Dark Fantasy games. They all are probably be more combat-oriented (the Dark Souls one being closer to the original LotFP experience but with different mechanics). Then I'll keep original LotFP (with minor house rules) for gritty and grim Weird Fantasy (for both medieval and early modern settings).

Damn, my head is blowing up with ideas. Guess I'm getting addicted to OSR!

Re: House rule: the "dying" state (negative HP)

Enagonius wrote:

If I were to call for saving throws agains death to avoid falling down one more HP and have other characters help him avoid this fate, would you advice me to call for rolls on the helpers too? Or is spending their whole round helping the dying party member enough? We're not using the playtest Medicine skill. What would you advice me while not using this skill? What would you advice me while adding this skill?

So the helper would be stabilizing them so that they don't have to make death saves? I would say, unless you want players to invest in a medicine skill (giving them control over how good they are at stabilizing others) then it's probably fine to just have them spend a round helping. They also lose their DEX bonus to AC if they are attacked since they can't properly defend themselves.

Some other cool OSR systems you may want to check out:

17th Century Minimalist
Electric Bastionland/Into the Odd
Whitehack

In my opinion, the LotFP rules are fine (although I actually love the new version of spellcasting presented in VAM and EC) so I think it's worth checking out some of the systems above, especially for their streamlined combat. For me, it's the LotFP modules that shine above everything else - my LotFP campaign is dedicated to playing through them.