Topic: Find Familiar

Anyone have a link to some good OSR familiar rules? I'm looking for something that will gain power with the Magic-User. I have the deluxe edition rules with the old xp tables. I think rather than print out new ones that I'm going to give the fighter a few skill points here and there and the M-U can have a familiar. That should balance things out and its something I've wanted to do anyway.

Thanks for your time.

Re: Find Familiar

Here's what I have so far:

Familiars:
The magic user gains a familiar; a small toad, snake, or cat is common.  The familiar can also take the form of a token such as a broach, ring, or pendant; it can make the transformation once per day per level. The familiar is the magic user 's spy, and with total concentration (no movement, fighting, casting, etc) the magic user can see through the eyes of her familiar.

If the familiar is killed, the magic user loses all of the bonuses of the familiar until the next full moon, when a new familiar will be attached to her. The MU also loses half of her HP’s rounded up; these hit points cannot be regained except through long rest.

The familiar has HP equal to half of its owners. AC will equal 14 + casters level.
The familiar can attack once per day per level, it hits automatically for 1 point and stuns the opponent for 1 round unless a ST vs. paralyze is made. The familiar is stealthy, it gets 2 dice + 1 per level to remain unseen. 
Spell like powers: As the magic-user gains power so to does her familiar. The familiar may choose to cast a spell on its own or at the request of its owner. The only caveat is that no one must ever see the familiar use magic of any sort, including transformation. If someone does witness the animal performing acts supernatural then the magic-user must kill that person within 24 hours, or the familiar will attack the magic-user. The familiar will attack as if it has HD equal to the MU and will do 1d4 damage per round until it or the MU are dead.
-At second level the familiar may cast unseen servant once per day.
-At fourth level the familiar may cast Audible Glamour once per day.
-At sixth level the familiar may cast Knock once per day.
-At eight level it can locate an object once per day.
-And at tenth level it can assume gaseous form, also once per day.
The familiar is not sentient while in totem form, it must therefore be in animal form to use spell like powers. As long as the totem is on the person of the magic user then the conjurer gets +1 hp per level.

Re: Find Familiar

My take would be:

* There are several ways to a magic-user to come about a familiar. One may spontaneously appear and offer it's services. The magic-user might be gifted the familiar by a mentor or someone. They might steal one from another and negotiate a deal. One might appear at a time of difficulty.
* Magic-users are never ever entitled to a familiar. If one chooses to assist the magic-user, it's their own decision and should be considered a privilege.
* Familiars always have their own motivations and agendas. These should range from benevolent to malevolent. The magic-user should never have certain knowledge about their familiar's motivations. (A random table could be constructed for these.)
* Familiars are always intelligent and cunning and can communicate with their magic-user partners in some way.
* The familiar's shape is always physical and real. They appear often as normal animals, cats, toads, dogs, horses, cows, etc. or they can be human or other humanoid, like an old woman, foreign servant, a house elf, or similar. They might be demon-like or something weird best kept hidden. They should always have something off about them.
* If a familiar dies, it's dead, gone. Familiars are valuable assets and partners and should never be used as cannon fodder.
* Familiars come and go as they please, some are nowhere to be seen unless called or summoned with a spell, some won't leave or appear when unwanted.
* Familiar's powers should be unique to the familiar.

I'd make some sort of random table with at least the following columns: appearance, quirk, motivation or agenda, special power or ability, morale.

Re: Find Familiar

I've never liked familiars. I like the idea of familiars, but I have seen too many versions of them in different games that make them almost a liability.
"You get some random animal, that gives you a slight bonus in certain situations, and if it dies, you lose part of your hit points forever."
I wouldn't mind a familiar, but the idea of keeping a small hit point creature at all times that will permanently damage me if something steps on it too hard is a "Summon Sword of Damocles" spell.

Re: Find Familiar

BillionSix, under those rules the best familiar by far would be a tapeworm. big_smile

I like the sort of demonic or fairy familiar spirits that witches and warlocks make pacts with to learn magic from.
The modern D&D familiars that are essentially living post order magic items that reappear in a day or so if killed are probably the dullest representation of them ever.

Re: Find Familiar

I've always hated the drastic drawback familiars too. I've been thinking about how I would do them in LotFP, and my current ideas are:

* A MU can gain a familiar, but does not start with one, and can't get one at first level. Might make the minimum 4th or 5th.
* The MU must seek out and encounter any desired familiar in play. (I might allow a clever player to use a Summoned creature only IF it's a permanent summons.)
* The target has to willingly agree to become the MU's familiar of it's own accord. Any kind of magical compulsion prevents the bond from forming. Mundane coercion works just fine, as long as the target makes the decision on it's own (GM's discretion). In the case of a permanent summon, if the MU offer's the role of familiar to such a creature, and it refuses, it is dismissed immediately.
* If the target agrees, both parties participate in a bonding ritual that takes 24 hours. Creatures of very low intelligence (less than 6) receive a bonus to their intelligence score of 1d4+2 once the ritual begins, and before the point of no return. They also automatically learn of any past familiars the MU has had and the circumstances of their death/loss. The GM should factor this into the familiar's decision to accept or refuse the bond. If the bond is refused, any bonus to intelligence is also lost.
* Once the bond is formed, it is truly permanent. It can only be undone by death. (Might come up with some high level spell to allow breaking the bond)
* While bonded, neither entity dominates the other. They both retain their own agendas, personality, and free will, at least in regards to each other. Either can be charmed/compelled/commanded by others, as per normal (though each receives a +1 on the save to resist such effects, as long as the bond is not currently denied), but neither the MU nor the familiar can ever bring about any magical compulsion effect upon the other, unless the other willingly allows it.
* The bond (and all benefits provided) can be denied by either party independently (the MU can deny benefits to the familiar, even if the familiar continues to allow benefits for the MU, and vice versa)
* The Player of the MU assumes general control of the familiar throughout play, but the GM should remain in control of the familiar's personality (It's really an NPC after all). The familiar should maintain behavior appropriate for the kind of creature it is (cats slink away on their own, dogs explore and sniff anything that looks like it needs it, birds spend much of the time airborne, etc) though in normal circumstances, it should "check in" at regular intervals.

The benefits (and drawbacks) of the bond are as follows:
* Each party can automatically speak and understand the languages of the other. Languages with a written component can be read, assuming an intelligence higher than 7. The ability to write depends on what limbs the familiar has. (intrinsic to the bond, and can't be denied. all languages gained this way are lost if the bond is ever broken).
* Limited mental communication. Can send one word/idea/image to the other as a full round action once every turn. Things like Come, Help, Run, Trap, Intruder, a person's face, a simple tactical suggestion (think on-screen football play diagrams: "x goes around this way, circle goes up the middle" or "charge AFTER my Fireball" etc)
* Each can, with a moment's thought, know the general location of the other. Direction and approximate distance. (Can't be denied)
* Shared senses. If they are within 30 feet of each other, and both taking a search action, the highest search skill is used with a +1 bonus. Also, if both are awake and within 30 feet of each other, stealth rolls to sneak by them are at -1. They can also see through each others senses, which takes full concentration and requires the permission of the other. The one who's senses are being borrowed still sees/hears/smells/etc, but on a few seconds delay, and with a blurry, dream-like filter on things.
* The familiar grants the MU the benefit, of additional spells per day. My current thought is to make it a number of spell levels equal to the HD of the familiar. MU's choice how those levels are divided. These spell levels represent the familiar allowing the MU to draw upon it's energies and stamina to increase his arcane potency. (spells memorized with these levels should be marked separately, in case the familiar is offended and denies the bond before they are cast)
* When the MU gains XP, it decides how much of that XP to sacrifice to the familiar, up to 20%. 0% is an option, but the MU should expect the familiar to be less than impressed, in that case. The familiar advances ONLY through the XP given to it by the MU in this fashion. (An appropriate advancement table would have to be drawn up for the familiar. My first instinct is to limit the progression of the familiar to one half of MU level in HD)
* Intense pain (a critical hit of any kind, dismemberment of any kind, or single hit damage in excess of 25% of max HP) suffered by either is felt by both, though damage is not shared or transferred. (Can interrupt spellcasting just like real damage. cannot be denied)

In the event that the familiar dies, the MU immediately knows how it died, regardless of distance. The MU receives a vision of the familiar's last moments (5 rounds or so), as seen through the senses of the familiar. This vision takes no time to receive, but is deeply shocking to the MU, and very likely to interrupt ANYTHING he is doing. The destruction of such a deep magical bond leaves a raw wound on the MU's connection to the arcane, effectively giving him a penalty on saves versus Magic and Magical Devices equal to half the hit dice of the familiar. This wound heals slowly, one point per week. The MU cannot seek out a new familiar until the wound is completely healed.

Re: Find Familiar

Heikki Hallamaa wrote:

My take would be:

* Magic-users are never ever entitled to a familiar. If one chooses to assist the magic-user, it's their own decision and should be considered a privilege.

I never tell the PC's how their char should feel. But maybe having a mistreated or taken for granted familiar develop malevolent agenda's will work to keep the PC as a kind and loving master muhuhuhuuuhh!

Heikki Hallamaa wrote:

* Familiars always have their own motivations and agendas. These should range from benevolent to malevolent. The magic-user should never have certain knowledge about their familiar's motivations. (A random table could be constructed for these.)

I think I'll just be completely fiat about the familiars motivations; some times it will be a good pet and some times it will be a pain in the ass. The MU can keep it in totem form if he doesn't want to deal with a pet.

Heikki Hallamaa wrote:

* If a familiar dies, it's dead, gone. Familiars are valuable assets and partners and should never be used as cannon fodder.

I like Yuritau's idea about a magical would that results in a penalty to saves. Maybe I will do that in conjunction with a less severe penalty than the 50% HP loss that I posted.

Heikki Hallamaa wrote:

* Familiars come and go as they please, some are nowhere to be seen unless called or summoned with a spell, some won't leave or appear when unwanted.

I may have a will stat for the familiar so that sometimes it gets distracted, but never longer than an hour or so. The GURPS method of availability for henchmen always seemed like too much of a wildcard to have last for the whole session.

Heikki Hallamaa wrote:

* Familiar's powers should be unique to the familiar.

Yeah, I might switch the powers up and develop a random table to roll on, for now I'm going with the ones listed I think, maybe different order though.

Heikki Hallamaa wrote:

I'd make some sort of random table with at least the following columns: appearance, quirk, motivation or agenda, special power or ability, morale.

I have an NPC generator, maybe I'll make a few draws from that for each familiar, that will add some nice depth. Good idea. Thanks for the input.

Re: Find Familiar

BillionSix wrote:

I've never liked familiars. I like the idea of familiars, but I have seen too many versions of them in different games that make them almost a liability.
"You get some random animal, that gives you a slight bonus in certain situations, and if it dies, you lose part of your hit points forever."
I wouldn't mind a familiar, but the idea of keeping a small hit point creature at all times that will permanently damage me if something steps on it too hard is a "Summon Sword of Damocles" spell.

Yeah, I don't want to force anything on a PC; that's why I wrote the totem option: "The familiar can also take the form of a token such as a broach, ring, or pendant; it can make the transformation once per day per level." Do you think the bonus HP are enough to warrant keeping it in totem form instead of having a willing and able spy.

And as for permanent loss of stats; I'm with you there. But I do want to make it an ordeal to loose a familiar, just to keep its spy ability edgy and something that the PC will worry about. Do you think 50% loss of HP that can only be recovered through rest is too much? I am now considering 25% loss of HP and a hit to the MU Save vs magic until the wound is healed, still only through rest, no magical healing.

Thanks for your time.

Re: Find Familiar

Yuritau wrote:

I've always hated the drastic drawback familiars too. I've been thinking about how I would do them in LotFP, and my current ideas are:

* A MU can gain a familiar, but does not start with one, and can't get one at first level. Might make the minimum 4th or 5th.
* The MU must seek out and encounter any desired familiar in play. (I might allow a clever player to use a Summoned creature only IF it's a permanent summons.)
* The target has to willingly agree to become the MU's familiar of it's own accord. Any kind of magical compulsion prevents the bond from forming. Mundane coercion works just fine, as long as the target makes the decision on it's own (GM's discretion). In the case of a permanent summon, if the MU offer's the role of familiar to such a creature, and it refuses, it is dismissed immediately.
* If the target agrees, both parties participate in a bonding ritual that takes 24 hours. Creatures of very low intelligence (less than 6) receive a bonus to their intelligence score of 1d4+2 once the ritual begins, and before the point of no return. They also automatically learn of any past familiars the MU has had and the circumstances of their death/loss. The GM should factor this into the familiar's decision to accept or refuse the bond. If the bond is refused, any bonus to intelligence is also lost.
* Once the bond is formed, it is truly permanent. It can only be undone by death. (Might come up with some high level spell to allow breaking the bond)
* While bonded, neither entity dominates the other. They both retain their own agendas, personality, and free will, at least in regards to each other. Either can be charmed/compelled/commanded by others, as per normal (though each receives a +1 on the save to resist such effects, as long as the bond is not currently denied), but neither the MU nor the familiar can ever bring about any magical compulsion effect upon the other, unless the other willingly allows it.
* The bond (and all benefits provided) can be denied by either party independently (the MU can deny benefits to the familiar, even if the familiar continues to allow benefits for the MU, and vice versa)
* The Player of the MU assumes general control of the familiar throughout play, but the GM should remain in control of the familiar's personality (It's really an NPC after all). The familiar should maintain behavior appropriate for the kind of creature it is (cats slink away on their own, dogs explore and sniff anything that looks like it needs it, birds spend much of the time airborne, etc) though in normal circumstances, it should "check in" at regular intervals.

I like the feel that this would have, but its more complicated than what I want to keep track of and run. I do like the emphasis that the familiar is an NPC. Thats an important thing for the player to understand.


Yuritau wrote:

The benefits (and drawbacks) of the bond are as follows:
* Each party can automatically speak and understand the languages of the other. Languages with a written component can be read, assuming an intelligence higher than 7. The ability to write depends on what limbs the familiar has. (intrinsic to the bond, and can't be denied. all languages gained this way are lost if the bond is ever broken).
* Limited mental communication. Can send one word/idea/image to the other as a full round action once every turn. Things like Come, Help, Run, Trap, Intruder, a person's face, a simple tactical suggestion (think on-screen football play diagrams: "x goes around this way, circle goes up the middle" or "charge AFTER my Fireball" etc)
* Each can, with a moment's thought, know the general location of the other. Direction and approximate distance. (Can't be denied)
* Shared senses. If they are within 30 feet of each other, and both taking a search action, the highest search skill is used with a +1 bonus. Also, if both are awake and within 30 feet of each other, stealth rolls to sneak by them are at -1. They can also see through each others senses, which takes full concentration and requires the permission of the other. The one who's senses are being borrowed still sees/hears/smells/etc, but on a few seconds delay, and with a blurry, dream-like filter on things.
* The familiar grants the MU the benefit, of additional spells per day. My current thought is to make it a number of spell levels equal to the HD of the familiar. MU's choice how those levels are divided. These spell levels represent the familiar allowing the MU to draw upon it's energies and stamina to increase his arcane potency. (spells memorized with these levels should be marked separately, in case the familiar is offended and denies the bond before they are cast)
* When the MU gains XP, it decides how much of that XP to sacrifice to the familiar, up to 20%. 0% is an option, but the MU should expect the familiar to be less than impressed, in that case. The familiar advances ONLY through the XP given to it by the MU in this fashion. (An appropriate advancement table would have to be drawn up for the familiar. My first instinct is to limit the progression of the familiar to one half of MU level in HD)

I think I'm going to treat the familiar as an animal, not a spirit that may have human level intelligence. It will be smart for a pet, but not off the scale. The XP scale is an interesting idea, but I'm still using the Delux xp charts, and the MU progression in those rules is a little bit behind the other classes. At least the MU got a boost in grindhouse. So I think I'll just level the animal along with the caster. As for additional spells, I thought about it, but it would be OP in my game. I've already given the caster a few skill points and some toys to make up for the slow leveling.



Yuritau wrote:

* Intense pain (a critical hit of any kind, dismemberment of any kind, or single hit damage in excess of 25% of max HP) suffered by either is felt by both, though damage is not shared or transferred. (Can interrupt spellcasting just like real damage. cannot be denied)

In the event that the familiar dies, the MU immediately knows how it died, regardless of distance. The MU receives a vision of the familiar's last moments (5 rounds or so), as seen through the senses of the familiar. This vision takes no time to receive, but is deeply shocking to the MU, and very likely to interrupt ANYTHING he is doing. The destruction of such a deep magical bond leaves a raw wound on the MU's connection to the arcane, effectively giving him a penalty on saves versus Magic and Magical Devices equal to half the hit dice of the familiar. This wound heals slowly, one point per week. The MU cannot seek out a new familiar until the wound is completely healed.

I really like your interpretation here; both the Karamazov effect and the "raw wound on the MU's connection to the arcane" That's great fluff well illustrated by rules.

Great input, Thank you.

Re: Find Familiar

I think this will be my final:

Familiars:
PunBB bbcode test
The magic user gains a familiar; a small toad, snake, or cat is common.  The familiar can also take the form of a token such as a broach, ring, or pendant; it can make the transformation once per day per level. The familiar is the magic user 's spy, and with total concentration (no movement, fighting, casting, etc) the magic user can see through the eyes of her familiar. This vision is dreamlike and not always accurate.

In the event that the familiar dies, the MU immediately knows how it died, regardless of distance. The MU receives a vision of the familiar's last moments (5 rounds or so), as seen through the senses of the familiar. This vision takes no time to receive, but is deeply shocking to the MU, and very likely to interrupt ANYTHING (save vs, paralyze at –6) he is doing, as will any significant (>25% HP) wound. The destruction of such a deep magical bond leaves a raw wound on the MU's connection to the arcane, effectively giving him a penalty on saves versus Magic and Magical Devices, roll 1d10 for penalty. The MU also loses 1/3rd of her HP’s rounded up; these hit points cannot be regained except through long rest.
If the familiar is killed, the magic user loses all of the bonuses of the familiar until the next full moon, when a new familiar can be attached to her.

The familiar has HP equal to half of its owners. AC will equal 14 + casters level.
The familiar can attack once per day per level, it hits automatically for 1 point and stuns the opponent for 1 round unless a ST vs. paralyze is made. The familiar is stealthy, it gets 2 dice + 1 per level to remain unseen. 
Spell like powers: At second level and every even level thereafter the familiar may develop a spell like power. These powers are each useable once per day at the will of the familiar. The owner may request that the familiar use an enchantment, this is treated as a command (make reaction check to see how closely the familiar follows instructions). The familiar is not sentient while in totem form, it must therefore be in animal form to use spell like powers. As long as the totem is on the person of the magic user then the conjurer gets +1 hp per level.
The only caveat is that no one must ever see the familiar use magic of any sort, including transformation. If someone does witness the animal performing acts supernatural then the magic-user must kill that person within 24 hours, or the familiar will attack the magic-user. The familiar will attack as if it has HD equal to the MU and will do 1d4 damage per round until it or the MU are dead.
Spell like powers: 1. Unseen servant  2.Audible Glamour  3.Knock          4. Locate object   5. Hold portal  6. No power but animal develops new personality quirk. 7. Polymorph into small bird (1 turn / level) 8. Limited charm person (this will often be used to get food. Only available to MU on a d6 roll of 4 and up. And the familiar will only maintain it for 10 minutes per level.)  9. Detect magic 10. cure light wounds 11. Develops extreme dislike for one of the party members. Presents caster with gemstone (d6 + level x 500 GP) in value. Hated party member loses this amount. 12. Roll twice more but familiars diet now costs (level x 10 gp/ day)
The familiar is not sentient while in totem form, it must therefore be in animal form to use spell like powers. As long as the totem is on the person of the magic user then the conjurer gets +1 hp per level.
    Although its owner usually plays the familiar it is an NPC with its own quirks and personality that the DM may play at any time. It is smart for an animal, but not un-naturally so. The owner can communicate telepathically with the familiar as she can with all animals. Single word commands issued once per minute or so, a smart animal will understand a verb followed by a noun. Make a reaction check to gauge how closely the animal’s actions match the Magic-users intentions.
PunBB bbcode test

Re: Find Familiar

Bluespruce786 wrote:

I like the feel that this would have, but its more complicated than what I want to keep track of and run. I do like the emphasis that the familiar is an NPC. Thats an important thing for the player to understand.

All that's really important is that the bond created between MU and Familiar MUST be a mutual agreement, imho. You are not acquiring a slave, you are choosing a lifelong ally.

Bluespruce786 wrote:

I think I'm going to treat the familiar as an animal, not a spirit that may have human level intelligence. It will be smart for a pet, but not off the scale. The XP scale is an interesting idea, but I'm still using the Delux xp charts, and the MU progression in those rules is a little bit behind the other classes. At least the MU got a boost in grindhouse. So I think I'll just level the animal along with the caster. As for additional spells, I thought about it, but it would be OP in my game. I've already given the caster a few skill points and some toys to make up for the slow leveling.

I added an Int bonus mostly just to bump animals up to a point where they can behave like an NPC with a personality, rather than just a pet. Went with 1d4+2 (1d6 works too) just to open up the possibility of the familiar being able to read.

Yeah, I agree that spell benefit is a big one, which is why I like the idea of making the player balance it out himself. If he wants a more potent familiar, he pays for it by leveling slower, hehe. The flavor of that (the familiar fueling the MU's spells) is something I roughly adapted from imho the coolest magic mechanic I've ever seen, from the Fionavar Tapestry trilogy of books by Guy Gavriel Kay.

Basically, you have a wizard that knows how to do all the wonderful things that magic can do, but he can't fuel his own magic himself. So he chooses what's called a Source, which is another person who is willing to be the one who fuels the wizard's magic. The Source can be any kind of person really (the main one in the books is a pretty badass dwarven warrior), but if they agree to be the Source, they and the wizard are bonded for life. The wizard is utterly dependent on the Source: without him, the magic just doesn't work. And the Source has the ability to deny the bond, cutting off the wizard's magic, but there's such a strong taboo against that that it's only ever happened once. When the wizard draws power from the Source to fuel magic, it behaves a lot like fatigue damage on the Source, so there's a practical limit to what a Source can let a Wizard do in a day. The tradeoff is that magic, in the story of the books, is very powerful. If the Source ever dies, the wizard basically stops being a wizard, period. (can't remember if there was anything in the books about getting a new Source).

I think that would be fun to adapt into an RPG system, but I don't know how many players would be willing to rely so heavily on ONE other character.

Last edited by Yuritau (2013-01-03 05:33:22)